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De Mundus => Social and Family Life => Topic started by: Nick on February 05, 2018, 08:28:53 AM

Title: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Nick on February 05, 2018, 08:28:53 AM
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Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 05, 2018, 09:19:57 AM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest (nope!) with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: annamack on February 05, 2018, 02:55:31 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.

Does Fr Kruschev have a personal acquaintance with Putin?
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Nick on February 05, 2018, 04:24:41 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.


" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 06, 2018, 09:46:58 AM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.

Does Fr Kruschev have a personal acquaintance with Putin?

As far as I'm aware, no. 

I think that as a native Russian, and as one famously learned in Russian history and culture, and as a former religious official in Russia, of the Russian Church, and now a current traditional Catholic, that his view is one that ought to have some weight to it!  Could he be wrong? Sure.  We all could be wrong about him. 
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 06, 2018, 09:49:29 AM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.


" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?

It would mean that he is a sociopath without any morals, who simply does "what works."  Presently, old-country conservatism and religiosity "work."  The idea is that if seizing the means of production and implementing a socialist regime "worked," he'd do that instead. 

I don't have a strong opinion on Putin, just relaying the opinion of someone who I think is far more qualified to have one.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: TKGS on February 06, 2018, 04:31:10 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.


" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?

It would mean that he is a sociopath without any morals, who simply does "what works."  Presently, old-country conservatism and religiosity "work."  The idea is that if seizing the means of production and implementing a socialist regime "worked," he'd do that instead. 

I don't have a strong opinion on Putin, just relaying the opinion of someone who I think is far more qualified to have one.

I think that's the round-about way of saying, yes, that makes him more honest and reliable than most other politicians...at least those in America.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 06, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.


" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?

It would mean that he is a sociopath without any morals, who simply does "what works."  Presently, old-country conservatism and religiosity "work."  The idea is that if seizing the means of production and implementing a socialist regime "worked," he'd do that instead. 

I don't have a strong opinion on Putin, just relaying the opinion of someone who I think is far more qualified to have one.

I think that's the round-about way of saying, yes, that makes him more honest and reliable than most other politicians...at least those in America.

Pragmatists, in this sense, are not honest people, but exactly the opposite.  They make decisions and say things based on the current tide and tenor of social sentiment.  What's "right" is whatever keeps them in office, whatever furthers there agenda, whatever gains them favor.  It is not a moral way of behaving.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Callixtus on February 07, 2018, 10:25:20 AM
He WAS part of the KGB. They are trained in the art of INFILTRATION.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: annamack on February 07, 2018, 01:44:22 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.

Does Fr Kruschev have a personal acquaintance with Putin?

As far as I'm aware, no. 

I think that as a native Russian, and as one famously learned in Russian history and culture, and as a former religious official in Russia, of the Russian Church, and now a current traditional Catholic, that his view is one that ought to have some weight to it!  Could he be wrong? Sure.  We all could be wrong about him.

And yet he is the one world leader promoting Christianity (albeit a schismatic form, I know).  I don't really care what his reasons are.  Indeed, I'm inclined to agree with Nick's response.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: annamack on February 07, 2018, 01:48:45 PM

" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?

It would mean that he is a sociopath without any morals, who simply does "what works."  Presently, old-country conservatism and religiosity "work."  The idea is that if seizing the means of production and implementing a socialist regime "worked," he'd do that instead. 

I don't have a strong opinion on Putin, just relaying the opinion of someone who I think is far more qualified to have one.

Putin was promoting "old-country conservatism and religiosity" way before Trump (I assume that's where your idea comes from?) started to make it fashionable (if that's even the case - and I'm far from convinced that it is).
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 08, 2018, 10:18:56 AM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.

Does Fr Kruschev have a personal acquaintance with Putin?

As far as I'm aware, no. 

I think that as a native Russian, and as one famously learned in Russian history and culture, and as a former religious official in Russia, of the Russian Church, and now a current traditional Catholic, that his view is one that ought to have some weight to it!  Could he be wrong? Sure.  We all could be wrong about him.

And yet he is the one world leader promoting Christianity (albeit a schismatic form, I know).  I don't really care what his reasons are.  Indeed, I'm inclined to agree with Nick's response.

Sounds like you're a pragmatist, too :D

I don't have a strong opinion about Putin, and honestly I don't personally know much about him at all.  I thought these were some interesting insights worth sharing, though.  I think that in many other situations, traditional Catholics would be far less receptive of someone with Putin's history and far more skeptical of him.  Imagine if you found out your priest was a former KGB agent who goes off and decides to form some priestly order, has a great amount of success proliferating it, gains loads of attention, says all the right things, etc.

Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Nick on February 08, 2018, 03:37:04 PM
" Imagine if you found out your priest was a former KGB agent who goes off and decides to form some priestly order, has a great amount of success proliferating it, gains loads of attention, says all the right things,"

Pragmatist's might be surprised, but not shocked; as we usually keep at least one eye open at all times.  😉
Imagine if it was eventually revealed that there was a link between the leader of a traditionalist society and yewish interests (krah, cough cough ) .

Wouldn't we recognize that both the wheat and the cockle grew up together in the same field ?
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Troubled Teen on February 08, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
Mith are you sure you're not thinking about Fr. Alexander Kryssov? He was raised in an atheist family and baptized into Latin Rite Catholicism without going through Eastern Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: TKGS on February 08, 2018, 04:44:38 PM
I read an article a few months ago (maybe longer) in which the author claims that a traditional Catholic priest (he named him, but I don't remember his name) in Russia told him that Putin spends a week every year living as a monk in an Orthodox monastery on retreat.  The priest believed that Putin had genuinely converted to the Orthodox faith and that his actions in defense of Christianity are genuine.  I've tried to locate the article on the internet but haven't been able to figure out the right search word combination to find it.

I don't believe very much that the MSM report about Putin, but it seems that most "bad" things they report about him are actually good things.  I certainly don't believe anything "leaked" by the "Intelligence Community". 

So I don't know what to think for sure.  I'm just not willing to condemn him other than his Orthodox faith.  And perhaps, if the Conciliar sect wasn't masquerading as Catholic, perhaps he would find the truth.  The fact that it was widely reported that Putin doesn't think Bergoglio is even a Christian is interesting.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mithrandylan on February 08, 2018, 09:29:37 PM
Mith are you sure you're not thinking about Fr. Alexander Kryssov? He was raised in an atheist family and baptized into Latin Rite Catholicism without going through Eastern Orthodoxy.

I might be.  I thought the CMRI had a former Orthodox priest, and assumed it was him.  Sorry!
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: TKGS on February 09, 2018, 10:09:00 AM
Mith are you sure you're not thinking about Fr. Alexander Kryssov? He was raised in an atheist family and baptized into Latin Rite Catholicism without going through Eastern Orthodoxy.

I might be.  I thought the CMRI had a former Orthodox priest, and assumed it was him.  Sorry!

The last time I heard about this former Orthodox priest was from a Fatima Conference recording some time back in which Bishop Pivarunas, in answer to a question, says that the priest went silent and they've lost all touch with him.  The bishop did not know whether or not something happened to him or if he went back to the Orthodox or what.  The bishop asked for prayers for the priest.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: annamack on February 11, 2018, 12:12:07 PM

And yet he is the one world leader promoting Christianity (albeit a schismatic form, I know).  I don't really care what his reasons are.  Indeed, I'm inclined to agree with Nick's response.

Sounds like you're a pragmatist, too :D

To the very marrow of my being, sadly.



I don't have a strong opinion about Putin, and honestly I don't personally know much about him at all.  I thought these were some interesting insights worth sharing, though.  I think that in many other situations, traditional Catholics would be far less receptive of someone with Putin's history and far more skeptical of him.  Imagine if you found out your priest was a former KGB agent who goes off and decides to form some priestly order, has a great amount of success proliferating it, gains loads of attention, says all the right things, etc.

If he were a validly ordained priest, then I would be happy to accept him as such. 

Without personal knowledge of Putin, the good Father's opinion is just that - and he is, of course, as entitled to it as the rest of us are entitled to ours.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: annamack on February 11, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
I read an article a few months ago (maybe longer) in which the author claims that a traditional Catholic priest (he named him, but I don't remember his name) in Russia told him that Putin spends a week every year living as a monk in an Orthodox monastery on retreat.  The priest believed that Putin had genuinely converted to the Orthodox faith and that his actions in defense of Christianity are genuine.  I've tried to locate the article on the internet but haven't been able to figure out the right search word combination to find it.

I don't believe very much that the MSM report about Putin, but it seems that most "bad" things they report about him are actually good things.  I certainly don't believe anything "leaked" by the "Intelligence Community". 

So I don't know what to think for sure.  I'm just not willing to condemn him other than his Orthodox faith.  And perhaps, if the Conciliar sect wasn't masquerading as Catholic, perhaps he would find the truth.  The fact that it was widely reported that Putin doesn't think Bergoglio is even a Christian is interesting.

I also read somewhere (like you, I can't remember where) that, when he made a state visit to the Vatican, he wanted to discuss Fatima but Bergoglio refused.  As I've said previously, I'm not particularly bothered about his motives, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he's genuine.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: TKGS on February 11, 2018, 02:22:47 PM
I read an article a few months ago (maybe longer) in which the author claims that a traditional Catholic priest (he named him, but I don't remember his name) in Russia told him that Putin spends a week every year living as a monk in an Orthodox monastery on retreat.  The priest believed that Putin had genuinely converted to the Orthodox faith and that his actions in defense of Christianity are genuine.  I've tried to locate the article on the internet but haven't been able to figure out the right search word combination to find it.

I don't believe very much that the MSM report about Putin, but it seems that most "bad" things they report about him are actually good things.  I certainly don't believe anything "leaked" by the "Intelligence Community". 

So I don't know what to think for sure.  I'm just not willing to condemn him other than his Orthodox faith.  And perhaps, if the Conciliar sect wasn't masquerading as Catholic, perhaps he would find the truth.  The fact that it was widely reported that Putin doesn't think Bergoglio is even a Christian is interesting.

I also read somewhere (like you, I can't remember where) that, when he made a state visit to the Vatican, he wanted to discuss Fatima but Bergoglio refused.  As I've said previously, I'm not particularly bothered about his motives, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he's genuine.

I read this as well, possibly from an article linked by Novus Ordo Watch.  If I'm not mistaken, it was the same article that reported that when Putin left the Vatican he noted that he didn't think Bergoglio was a Christian.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: Mysterium Fidei on February 11, 2018, 05:10:33 PM
One of the CMRI fathers is Fr. Kruschev, and he's a former Russian Orthodox priest with a doctorate (maybe even a few?) in history.  He said something along the lines of not trusting Putin in the slightest, that the only thing he cares about is Putin and that he's a ruthless pragmatist who will put on whatever appearance works.  Right now that's one of "family values" but if liberalism could win him favor and power, he'd be a liberal.  I don't know either way but the "inside" view of a very learned traditional Catholic seems more than worthy of consideration when assessing the man.


" ruthless pragmatist" that's a good thing, isn't it ? 😏
Wouldn't that make him more honest and reliable than most other politicians ?

It would mean that he is a sociopath without any morals, who simply does "what works."  Presently, old-country conservatism and religiosity "work."  The idea is that if seizing the means of production and implementing a socialist regime "worked," he'd do that instead. 

I don't have a strong opinion on Putin, just relaying the opinion of someone who I think is far more qualified to have one.

I think that's the round-about way of saying, yes, that makes him more honest and reliable than most other politicians...at least those in America.

Pragmatists, in this sense, are not honest people, but exactly the opposite. They make decisions and say things based on the current tide and tenor of social sentiment.  What's "right" is whatever keeps them in office, whatever furthers there agenda, whatever gains them favor.  It is not a moral way of behaving.

Sounds like a typical American politician.
Title: Re: Putin's Family Values
Post by: TKGS on February 11, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Sounds like a typical American politician.

Nah!  A typical American politician would never condemn homosexuality--they didn't even when it wasn't political death to do so.