Author Topic: Secondary Objects of Infallibility  (Read 564 times)

true catholic

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Re: Secondary Objects of Infallibility
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 01:06:43 PM »
Awkward quote.
"Only then can the man who is no longer Pope be denounced by a competant authority. Your claim is another illustration of the back to front thinking that is so prevelant among Trads. The Vatican II 'popes' either fell from the Papacy when they began teaching their Vatican II heresies and imposing them on the Faithful, or they were heretics before election and therefore were never Popes to begin with."

Concerning heresy coming from a claimant to the papacy or cardinal, bishop etc there is no need for a formal declaratory sentence, its automatic.  The laity can withdraw their subjection to them with impunity.  And this is why it is paramount that the laity knows the faith for themselves, not relying another man.  Every soul stands before the judgement seat of God alone.

Pope Paul IV, Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559:
6. (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

7. Finally, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, define and decree]:- that any and all persons who would have been subject to those thus promoted or elevated if they had not previously deviated from the Faith, become heretics, incurred schism or provoked or committed any or all of these, be they members of anysoever of the following categories: ...
(ii) the laity; shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs ...
 

Anonimus

Re: Secondary Objects of Infallibility
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 10:59:41 PM »
Some people seem to think a public heretic is anyone who utters a heresy in public.

In reality (paraphrasing), a public heretic is one who has been judged a heretic by competent authority.

When have any of these post V2 popes been so judged?

I'm not familiar with the previous thread and will certainly follow this one. But your comment here needs to be addressed because it's wrong.

No Earthy authority can judge a Pope. Instead, a Pope who falls into public formal heresy is ipso facto deposed according to Bellarmine and others. Only then can the man who is no longer Pope be denounced by a competant authority.

Your claim is another illustration of the back to front thinking that is so prevelant among Trads.

The Vatican II 'popes' either fell from the Papacy when they began teaching their Vatican II heresies and imposing them on the Faithful, or they were heretics before election and therefore were never Popes to begin with.

Either way, their public formal heresies prove their lack of validity as Popes and so any competant authority will be judging them not as Popes, but as heretics who have already fallen from office.

I understand why you feel the need to say and believe this.

If JST/Cajetan are correct, you have a major problem.
 

awkwardcustomer

Re: Secondary Objects of Infallibility
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 07:35:00 AM »
Some people seem to think a public heretic is anyone who utters a heresy in public.

In reality (paraphrasing), a public heretic is one who has been judged a heretic by competent authority.

When have any of these post V2 popes been so judged?

I'm not familiar with the previous thread and will certainly follow this one. But your comment here needs to be addressed because it's wrong.

No Earthy authority can judge a Pope. Instead, a Pope who falls into public formal heresy is ipso facto deposed according to Bellarmine and others. Only then can the man who is no longer Pope be denounced by a competant authority.

Your claim is another illustration of the back to front thinking that is so prevelant among Trads.

The Vatican II 'popes' either fell from the Papacy when they began teaching their Vatican II heresies and imposing them on the Faithful, or they were heretics before election and therefore were never Popes to begin with.

Either way, their public formal heresies prove their lack of validity as Popes and so any competant authority will be judging them not as Popes, but as heretics who have already fallen from office.

I understand why you feel the need to say and believe this.

If JST/Cajetan are correct, you have a major problem.

Bellarmine refutes Cajetan.

If I have a problem then so does Bellarmine.