Author Topic: Election of a Pope  (Read 621 times)

MyrnaM

Election of a Pope
« on: November 27, 2017, 11:35:44 AM »
We talked about "Intention" on another thread which made me think of "election".

How is it that the election of a pope by Freemasons seems to go unnoticed?  Isn't it known that "they" were part of the conclave during Vatican II, elections?


Quote
Second Council of Lyons – 1274
Council Fathers - May 7, 1274   on election and the power of the elected person 
When a disordered passion enslaves the will or some pledge compels it to one way of acting, the election is null from lack of freedom, we implore the cardinals through the tender mercy of our God’, and we call them to witness through the sprinkling of his precious blood, that they consider very carefully what they are about to do. They are electing the vicar of Jesus Christ, the successor of Peter, the ruler of the universal church, the guide of the Lord’s flock. They are to lay aside all the disorder of private affection, to be free from any bargain, agreement or pledge; they are not to consider any promise or understanding, to have no regard for their mutual advantage or that of their friends. They are not to look after their own interests or their individual convenience. Without any constraint on their judgment other than God, they are to seek purely and freely the public good, with the election alone in mind. They are to use every endeavour and care that is possible. Their one aim is to provide, by their service and speedily, what is so useful and necessary for the whole world, a fitting spouse for the church. Those who act otherwise are subject to the divine retribution, their fault never to be pardoned except after severe penance. We invalidate all bargains, agreements, pledges, promises and understandings, whether confirmed by oath or any other bond; we nullify all these and decree that such have no force whatever. No one is constrained in any way to observe them, nor anyone to fear that by transgressing them he is breaking faith. Rather he deserves praise, for even human law testifies that such transgressions are more acceptable to God than the keeping of the oath.



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MyrnaM

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 10:12:10 AM »
And also this:

 
Quote
Quartus Supra
Pope BI. Pius IX - January 6, 1873
Now, what can be said to belong more to the area of ecclesiastical affairs than the election of bishops? We have read nowhere in the holy writings that these could be decided by princes or by peoples. Indeed, the Fathers of the Church, the ecumenical Councils, and the Apostolic constitutions have always both recognized and ordered that these elections constituted part of the Church's power. So if in the matter of establishing an ecclesiastical shepherd, the Apostolic See should define the procedure to be followed in conducting such elections, in what way could it be said that it has injured the rights of the supreme emperor? The rights it exercises are those of its own proper power, not those of another's power. The bishop has indeed a special and venerable authority over the people entrusted to him. The civil power need not fear it since the bishop will be no enemy to the civil power, but will affirm the legitimate rights of the ruler they share. But if it should turn out differently—since human beings are weak—the Apostolic See itself would attend to a bishop who was revolting against the faith and the subjection which is due his legitimate ruler. It need not be feared that anyone at enmity with the legitimate ruler will slink into the episcopal office. For according to the Church's laws, the qualities of the men being considered for promotion are carefully examined to determine that they are endowed with the virtues which the Apostle demands they have. The man outstanding in these virtues would heed the precept of blessed Peter: "Be subject to every human institution for God's sake: to the king as preeminent, to governors as sent by him to punish evildoers and to honor the good. For this is God's will, that by doing good, you may silence the ignorance of foolish men; as free men, do not use freedom as a pretext for wrongdoing, but use freedom for your work as servants of God."

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OmegaTrad

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 09:17:48 AM »
Didn't one of the popes, or several, make it that Freemasons could vote in papal elections?
 

MyrnaM

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 02:47:02 PM »
I can't imagine who, do you know?
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Rubecorks

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 05:11:30 PM »
Didn't one of the popes, or several, make it that Freemasons could vote in papal elections?

Both Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII legislated that if there were a papal election where it was only discovered after the election that the one elected should have incurred excommunication for some offense, that for the sake of the election being unquestionable, the excommunication would be lifted automatically to make it valid. Being a member of any secret society is normally automatic excommunication for any Catholic.

 
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OmegaTrad

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 09:21:16 AM »
Didn't one of the popes, or several, make it that Freemasons could vote in papal elections?

Both Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII legislated that if there were a papal election where it was only discovered after the election that the one elected should have incurred excommunication for some offense, that for the sake of the election being unquestionable, the excommunication would be lifted automatically to make it valid. Being a member of any secret society is normally automatic excommunication for any Catholic.

So if a man is a freemason, he gets elected pope, then he's pope, and he's no longer excommunicated even if he keeps on being a freemason?
 

Rubecorks

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 12:08:15 PM »
Didn't one of the popes, or several, make it that Freemasons could vote in papal elections?

Both Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII legislated that if there were a papal election where it was only discovered after the election that the one elected should have incurred excommunication for some offense, that for the sake of the election being unquestionable, the excommunication would be lifted automatically to make it valid. Being a member of any secret society is normally automatic excommunication for any Catholic.

So if a man is a freemason, he gets elected pope, then he's pope, and he's no longer excommunicated even if he keeps on being a freemason?

Hidden censures by ecclesiastical law are automatically lifted for the sake of the election. So, yes, it is possible to find a man who was elected pope suddenly being found to have been a Freemason before the election. He would remain pope.

This does not apply to divine law, just censures legislated by ecclesiastical law, and which the electors were not aware of at the time of the election.

 

Anonimus

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 07:20:49 AM »
I'm sure this quote hasa been posted here somewhere before, but seems relevant again:

Cardinal Billot, S.J. expressly denies that God could allow a false Pope to be recognized as a true Pope:

“Finally, whatever you still think about the possibility or impossibility of the aforementioned hypothesis [a Pope becoming a heretic], at least one point should be considered absolutely incontrovertible, and placed firmly above any doubt whatever: The adhesion of the universal Church will be always, in itself, an infallible sign of the legitimacy of a determined Pontiff, and therefore also of the existence of all the conditions required for legitimacy itself…As will become even more clear by what we shall say later, God can permit that at times a vacancy in the Apostolic See be prolonged for a long time.  He can also permit that doubt arise about the legitimacy of this or that election.  He cannot however permit the whole Church to accept as Pontiff him who is not so truly and legitimately.

Therefore, from the moment in which the Pope is accepted by the Church and united to her as the head to the body, it is no longer permitted to raise doubts about a possible vice of election or a possible lack of any condition whatsoever necessary for legitimacy.  For the aforementioned adhesion of the Church heals in the root all fault in the election and proves infallibly the existence of all the required conditions.”  (Billot, Tractatus de Ecclesia Christi, vol. I, pp. 612-613)

https://archive.org/stream/tractatusdeeccle01bill#page/612/mode/2up

Note: Translation is by Siscoe/Salza.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 07:42:45 AM by Anonimus »
 

Mithrandylan

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Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 09:05:42 AM »

[Billot on Universal Acceptance-- snipped]

Note: Translation is by Siscoe/Salza.

 :lol: I seriously doubt that!
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Anonimus

Re: Election of a Pope
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 09:27:25 AM »

[Billot on Universal Acceptance-- snipped]

Note: Translation is by Siscoe/Salza.

 :lol: I seriously doubt that!

Interestingly, as I suspected someone to question the accuracy of the translation, I went to look it up, and it wasn't there.

Not sure what edition Siscoe/Salza were using, but the quote in question can be found on this link here, as the intro. to CH. 29: https://archive.org/stream/tractatusdeeccle01bill#page/608/mode/2up (which is actually p. 609 in this online edition).

Additionally, Novus Ordo Watch translates the passage substantially the same here (taken from the 5th edition beginning on p. 623):

https://novusordowatch.org/billot-de-ecclesia-thesis29/
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 09:31:10 AM by Anonimus »