Author Topic: What would it take for someone to attain a real Catholic credential today?  (Read 116 times)

ubipetrus

This is about a different kind of "authority," namely that of the "qualified expert."  In particular, given the status of things these days, what does it take for someone to be recognized (in some official manner) as being an "expert" in any Catholic theological, doctrinal, moral, liturgical, canonical, historical, linguistic, or pastoral category, particularly among traditional Catholics?  The logical thing one should expect is that one goes to school, preferably an "accredited" school, and most preferably of the sort which is specifically a Catholic school (college, university, seminary) of the sort which could be found in almost any country or any part of the world a scant 60 years ago.  But with these many great and venerable schools now all fatally compromised with Modernism, Teilhardism, and so forth (admittedly to varying degrees, but all such tainted to some degree), can any of their degrees be considered to be of any weight to us real Catholics today?  What about having taken courses (or better still obtained degrees or ordination) from traditional seminaries?  Can any real Catholic academia be found or identified today?

Granted, there may well be still some expertise from those 60 years ago and beyond, but the last of that expertise is rapidly dying off, and once the last of them dies off what will we have today?  Obviously, it helps to read a lot of theological manuals and the like, and the more we do and become familiar with them the better, but is that all we have today and for the immediately foreseeable future?  Some may well say, "once we have a true Pope he can give us all the answers," but even a true Pope is duty-bound to do all due diligence and research a topic to its greatest depths before giving a ruling.  It would be a grave and great sin for a pope to dare to presume upon his "infallibility" to protect him (and the Church) from his own stupidity, laziness, lack of education in the necessary theological sciences, and so forth, and so (most prudently) not many "rulings" should come at all rapidly no matter how hungry we may be to know the answers or how eager the man himself may be to see his own ideas or ways of putting things all get enshrined in Catholic dogma.  It doesn't mean that the next Pope needs to be himself an expert in everything, but that he be sufficiently expert as to discern true experts from the false in the various fields of knowledge which he will require his counselors to know, and to some real extent, be guided by their expertise given in an advisory capacity.  And of course such reliable experts themselves need to exist.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 04:32:11 PM by ubipetrus »
"My food is to do the will of Him that sent me." - John 4:34
 

true catholic

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Hi Ubipetrus, when a man goes to any school or building to learn, what are the things that all men inherently need in order to learn?  What is a qualified expert, is it the diploma or is it the demonstration of knowledge coming from the man?  Many men graduate but not all have truly learned.  It seems that you don't want to rely on yourself but rather another man.  What does he have that you would not be given or that you cannot attain? 

In reading your thread, I get the sense that your understanding of learning is being told what to believe, instead of actually learning with understanding and confidence in the information given.  It is one thing to repeat what was said and another, for a man to understand what he's actually saying.  One man could have come from Harvard and another from some obscure college but at the end of the day, it is the information coming from each man that will tell you who knows and who does not.

Necessarily, an accredited school, in and of itself, is not a guarantee of anything per se, it only becomes a succor if the man actually learned with confidence and understanding.  Many men can repeat a truth but if they are asked to expound upon the truth, they cannot do it.

Concerning the Catholic faith, Grace and the Rosary are necessary.

Ecclesiasticus 6:23-25  For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many, but with them to whom she is known, she continueth even to the sight of God.  Give ear, my son, and take wise counsel, and cast not away my advice.  Put thy feet into her fetters, and thy neck into her chains:
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 10:43:59 AM by true catholic »
 

ubipetrus

Hi Ubipetrus, when a man goes to any school or building to learn, what are the things that all men inherently need in order to learn?  What is a qualified expert, is it the diploma or is it the demonstration of knowledge coming from the man?  Many men graduate but not all have truly learned.  It seems that you don't want to rely on yourself but rather another man.  What does he have that you would not be given or that you cannot attain? 

In reading your thread, I get the sense that your understanding of learning is being told what to believe, instead of actually learning with understanding and confidence in the information given.  It is one thing to repeat what was said and another, for a man to understand what he's actually saying.  One man could have come from Harvard and another from some obscure college but at the end of the day, it is the information coming from each man that will tell you who knows and who does not.

Necessarily, an accredited school, in and of itself, is not a guarantee of anything per se, it only becomes a succor if the man actually learned with confidence and understanding.  Many men can repeat a truth but if they are asked to expound upon the truth, they cannot do it.
You raise good points here, though I don't see where anything I said could be construed as saying that "learning is being told what to believe" as knowing HOW we can know what we know is paramount to real learning, and the essence of what sets apart true science from mere knowledge, however large and detailed.  I am sure that every traditionalist priest and bishop did once "take a course" in ecclesiology during their seminary training, but then what?  Perhaps it was enough to be able to reiterate the correct answers (as can be drawn from any theological handbook) on the test so as to get a passing score, and then on to the next course.  I doubt that many of the quotes I give in Sede Vacante! Part One are not readily known (and all knowable) to most clerics and many here, but the big ticket question has been "how can these quotes make any sense today; how are they to be applied?"

This is where science comes in, for science is not merely some vast pool of knowledge but a process by which knowledge is obtained.  In the case of theology, the theological sciences enable us to deepen and enrich our understanding of the existing doctrines (never to change or contradict them!), for example by applying standard and established principles to new and unfamiliar circumstances.  My Sede Vacante! volumes are not mere statements of "here's what I have to say about all this, so there," but an intense study in applying the standard principles to the particular new and unfamiliar circumstance which Vatican II has brought all Catholics into.  It is not only about what to believe, but how and why we can come to know that it is true.  In science, facts are gathered and theories are ventured, then tests (experiments) are performed to verify the theories, reject the false theories, prove the true theories, and ultimately add to that vast pool of knowledge that many mistake for science itself.

It is the regeneration of a true Catholic academia which I most deeply wish to see restored, as that has not existed since about Vatican II or thereabouts.
"My food is to do the will of Him that sent me." - John 4:34
 
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