Author Topic: Please pray for my motherís successful surgery, recuperation, and full conversio  (Read 187 times)

ClemensMaria

I just saw this, but God who knows everything He knows that I would have said a prayer for her before her surgery.

 :pray:  Never too late!

The Church never professed, or practiced, this idea of "never too late". That is not traditional. Saints have urgently prayed for people who were about to die, which shows they did not believe that prayers after death are applied to a person when they were living in the past. I have seen this pop up about two other times in the past 20 years, but it is an abuse of the idea that God knows the past and present.
Itís not clear what you are saying here.  I would agree that we canít pray for a reversal of a known fact.  That would be offensive to God.  But for those things that are known only to God we can pray for. For example, someone dies and is known to be a member of the Church.  We can pray to God to give them the grace to die in a state of grace.  The saints would be diligently praying for someone prior to death because of the danger that the soul would fall away or continue separated from the Church.  If someone dies outside the Church then no prayer after the fact can ever reverse that.
 

Rubecorks

I just saw this, but God who knows everything He knows that I would have said a prayer for her before her surgery.

 :pray:  Never too late!

The Church never professed, or practiced, this idea of "never too late". That is not traditional. Saints have urgently prayed for people who were about to die, which shows they did not believe that prayers after death are applied to a person when they were living in the past. I have seen this pop up about two other times in the past 20 years, but it is an abuse of the idea that God knows the past and present.
Itís not clear what you are saying here.  I would agree that we canít pray for a reversal of a known fact.  That would be offensive to God.  But for those things that are known only to God we can pray for. For example, someone dies and is known to be a member of the Church.  We can pray to God to give them the grace to die in a state of grace.  The saints would be diligently praying for someone prior to death because of the danger that the soul would fall away or continue separated from the Church.  If someone dies outside the Church then no prayer after the fact can ever reverse that.

I am saying it is not within Catholic belief and practice to, for example, pray for the conversion of one's father after one knows he had died, expecting God to use those prayers because God would have known of any future prayers for his soul before the father's death. I have actually seen this twice before on a traditional Catholic forum.
 

ClemensMaria

Are you saying that God is bound by time?  Obviously, He cannot deny Himself.  Thatís a given.  And things that happen in time are a manifestation of His Devine Will.  But we are not only bound by time but we are not omniscient either.  So why would it be offensive to God to pray that the result of an operation is good even after the time that the operation is scheduled but before knowing the result?  If itís not offensive to God then why do you object?
 

Rubecorks

Are you saying that God is bound by time?  Obviously, He cannot deny Himself.  Thatís a given.  And things that happen in time are a manifestation of His Devine Will.  But we are not only bound by time but we are not omniscient either.  So why would it be offensive to God to pray that the result of an operation is good even after the time that the operation is scheduled but before knowing the result?  If itís not offensive to God then why do you object?

If it were good and beneficial to do, it would have been a part of the traditional ~2,000 years of Catholicism in praying for the dead. This absence is very significant...but if you can find something that shows it is not absent, be my guest and present it here.