Author Topic: What will the Restoration Look Like?  (Read 1895 times)

Rubecorks

Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2018, 05:43:20 PM »
I am curious to survey people's opinions-- what specific signs would you consider as sufficing to show that the crisis is resolved, or at least, to show that certain  steps/events have been made that a resolution is (naturally) imminent?

According to the Book of Daniel, this counterfeit catholic church will continue unto the end of the world.

Daniel 9:26-27  And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain: and the people that shall deny him shall not be his. And a people with their leader that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be waste, and after the end of the war the appointed desolation.  And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

The city is Rome.  Our Lady of La Salette 1846 said "Rome would lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist, the church would be in eclipse".  The church would be covered over by a counterfeit catholic church, seemingly catholic but not.

Prophecy of Osee 7:11 And Ephraim is become as a dove that is decoyed, not having a heart:

The Catholic Bible has a footnote on this:

""The abomination of desolation": Some understand this of the profanation of the temple by the crimes of the Jews, and by the bloody faction of the zealots. Others of the bringing in thither the ensigns and standard of the pagan Romans. Others, in fine, distinguish three different times of desolation: viz., that under Antiochus; that when the temple was destroyed by the Romans; and the last near the end of the world under Antichrist. To all which, as they suppose, this prophecy may have a relation."

Firstly, it says "may have a relation", which implies it may not. Secondly, "desolation" means "empty", and the traditionalists are all over the world right now offering Mass daily, so this is a good reason to think we may yet have a pope or two before the end of the world.



 
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true catholic

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Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2018, 06:42:21 PM »
I am curious to survey people's opinions-- what specific signs would you consider as sufficing to show that the crisis is resolved, or at least, to show that certain  steps/events have been made that a resolution is (naturally) imminent?

According to the Book of Daniel, this counterfeit catholic church will continue unto the end of the world.

Daniel 9:26-27  And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain: and the people that shall deny him shall not be his. And a people with their leader that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be waste, and after the end of the war the appointed desolation.  And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

The city is Rome.  Our Lady of La Salette 1846 said "Rome would lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist, the church would be in eclipse".  The church would be covered over by a counterfeit catholic church, seemingly catholic but not.

Prophecy of Osee 7:11 And Ephraim is become as a dove that is decoyed, not having a heart:

The Catholic Bible has a footnote on this:

""The abomination of desolation": Some understand this of the profanation of the temple by the crimes of the Jews, and by the bloody faction of the zealots. Others of the bringing in thither the ensigns and standard of the pagan Romans. Others, in fine, distinguish three different times of desolation: viz., that under Antiochus; that when the temple was destroyed by the Romans; and the last near the end of the world under Antichrist. To all which, as they suppose, this prophecy may have a relation."

Firstly, it says "may have a relation", which implies it may not. Secondly, "desolation" means "empty", and the traditionalists are all over the world right now offering Mass daily, so this is a good reason to think we may yet have a pope or two before the end of the world.

Rubecorks in charity, just because there may be so called "traditionalists" who are saying Mass, it do not mean that there will be another Pope.  Scripture clearly contradicts this premise.  Please remember the robber council was allowed to happen because of the abuses of the Catholic Faith itself.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.

So many people are hung up on externals and belonging to a group or club, that they do not care about God's truths.  Please don't misconstrue my statement concerning the Holy Catholic Mass, I wish I could find a truly Catholic and properly ordained priest that held to every teaching of the Catholic faith, so that I could receive the Eucharist!  Although I do go to an 81 year old priest, ordained in 1963, for confession.  But the simple fact remains that the Catholic Faith is greater than the Catholic Mass.  This is why Our Lady of Fatima said that God is giving two last remedies to the world, the recitation of the Rosary and devotion to the Imaculate heart of Mary.  Which means that the Catholic Mass would cease.  There are various other places in scripture that prove the point, it is so clear.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up,

And regarding the abomination of desolation, it is an object, that stands, it is a false altar that is brought over against the true altar of God. 

1 Machabees 1:57, 62  On the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred and forty-fifth year, king Antiochus set up the abominable idol of desolation upon the altar of God, and they built altars throughout all the cities of Juda round about: ... And on the five and twentieth day of the month they sacrificed upon the altar of the idol that was over against the altar of God.

Josue 22:29 God keep us from any such wickedness that we should revolt from the Lord, and leave off following his steps, by building an altar to offer holocausts, and sacrifices, and victims, beside the altar of the Lord our God, which is erected before his tabernacle.

This is clearly seen with the vatican II sect, the new Missal, new altar, new sacraments etc.  Regarding desolation being empty, this is true, false altars have no value to God, they are abominable.  Inauthentic worship is worthless, empty of sacrificial merit!  There are a lot of parallels with the Machabees and what has happened in our time, the end times.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:50:15 PM by true catholic »
 

ubipetrus

Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2018, 07:18:01 PM »
Quote from: ubipetrus
The scenario of the Vatican "cardinals" electing a real Catholic, even by mistake, or by the person subsequently repenting and becoming a Catholic, and thereby creating a Pope is just not realistic. 
That's like saying miracles and conversions are unrealistic!  Church history is replete with them.
I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, just that even if (against all odds and realistically possible scenarios) it somehow did, very little good would be allowed to come of it.  The days that the Vatican organization could be resuscitated have already passed. That possibility no longer exists.  In earlier days, there had still remained a substantial body of conservatives who, though they went along with the Novus Ordo religion, only did so most grudgingly, ever hankering for a full return to the state of things as they were before Vatican II.  They used to exist in vast enough numbers to pull their society as a whole in a Catholic direction if only they had Catholic leadership supporting them, honoring them, appointing bishops from them, and so forth.  But with the passage of time the ranks of these have thinned and died off and barely any such remain today, all old timers.  The new "conservatives," having never seen any "church" but the Novus Ordo, seek to preserve only the Novus Ordo as it presently exists (as against yet further descent into madness), not restore a Church they never knew.  While we may applaud such key Vatican figures as have expressed opposition to Amoris Laetitia for the remaining vestigial Catholic sentiment they display in that action, I think we all know that even if they were fully put in charge all they would want to "restore" would be the way things were under John Paul II or perhaps Benedict XVI.

But all right, let's suppose such a scenario somehow actually happening.  An election conducted by Vatican heretic "cardinals" has absolutely no capacity, of itself, to create a Pope, even of a bona fide Catholic man.  But such a man, once ousted by the Vatican heretics (assuming they don't simply kill him first) for being really and fully a real Catholic, and not merely vaguely slightly less "Novus Ordo" than the guy before him, might find it relatively easy to unite traditional Catholics behind him as Pope (all for purely psychological reasons), and an acceptance by them of him as Pope (and his acceptance to receive a truly valid episcopacy from truly valid and lawful traditional bishop(s)) really WOULD make him Pope.  That much is at least physically possible, though about as likely as tossing a coin and having it land balanced on edge.
"My food is to do the will of Him that sent me." - John 4:34
 

true catholic

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Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2018, 07:30:01 PM »
Quote from: ubipetrus
The scenario of the Vatican "cardinals" electing a real Catholic, even by mistake, or by the person subsequently repenting and becoming a Catholic, and thereby creating a Pope is just not realistic. 
That's like saying miracles and conversions are unrealistic!  Church history is replete with them.
I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, just that even if (against all odds and realistically possible scenarios) it somehow did, very little good would be allowed to come of it.  The days that the Vatican organization could be resuscitated have already passed. That possibility no longer exists.  In earlier days, there had still remained a substantial body of conservatives who, though they went along with the Novus Ordo religion, only did so most grudgingly, ever hankering for a full return to the state of things as they were before Vatican II.  They used to exist in vast enough numbers to pull their society as a whole in a Catholic direction if only they had Catholic leadership supporting them, honoring them, appointing bishops from them, and so forth.  But with the passage of time the ranks of these have thinned and died off and barely any such remain today, all old timers.  The new "conservatives," having never seen any "church" but the Novus Ordo, seek to preserve only the Novus Ordo as it presently exists (as against yet further descent into madness), not restore a Church they never knew.  While we may applaud such key Vatican figures as have expressed opposition to Amoris Laetitia for the remaining vestigial Catholic sentiment they display in that action, I think we all know that even if they were fully put in charge all they would want to "restore" would be the way things were under John Paul II or perhaps Benedict XVI.

But all right, let's suppose such a scenario somehow actually happening.  An election conducted by Vatican heretic "cardinals" has absolutely no capacity, of itself, to create a Pope, even of a bona fide Catholic man.  But such a man, once ousted by the Vatican heretics (assuming they don't simply kill him first) for being really and fully a real Catholic, and not merely vaguely slightly less "Novus Ordo" than the guy before him, might find it relatively easy to unite traditional Catholics behind him as Pope (all for purely psychological reasons), and an acceptance by them of him as Pope (and his acceptance to receive a truly valid episcopacy from truly valid and lawful traditional bishop(s)) really WOULD make him Pope.  That much is at least physically possible, though about as likely as tossing a coin and having it land balanced on edge.

I don't even understand why you would entertain useless speculation when scripture clearly indicates that the counterfeit catholic church will remain unto the consummation of the world.

Here is a very good documentary regarding the end of the sacerdotal monarchy of the Vatican City State.

[redacted -- tmw89]
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:28:42 PM by tmw89 »
 

ubipetrus

Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2018, 08:16:08 PM »
...scripture clearly indicates that the counterfeit catholic church will remain unto the consummation of the world.
EVERY sect and schism is a "counterfeit catholic church," from the Gnostics and Manicheans and Nestorians up through the Photians, the Eastern schismatics, the Muslims, the Protestants (all varieties), the Mormons and Baha'i's and Novus Ordos and Moonies, is a false catholic church, meaning that they each claim to be that which Jesus Christ came into this world to found.  So of course some form or another of counterfeit catholic church is absolutely bound to exist from now to the end of time, even were that to be over a million years from now.  There really is nothing special about the Novus Ordo as just another of the very many false sects and schisms as have arisen and will continue to arise, beyond perhaps its unusually large size in so short amount of time (having stolen its resources right out of the real Catholic Church).  But left to its own devices it would disintegrate and collapse of itself within 1,000 years should the world tarry so long, and be reduced to being of little to no worldwide consequence well before then.

But OK, let us suppose that the actual End manages to come along before the Novus Ordo can shrink by so much as, say 50%, something just possible to some of the very youngest people living today to see in their lifetimes, and also such that no new sect comes along to displace it to any consequential degree in that meantime.  IF that should prove to be the case, then the Biblical Whore of Babylon was born in 1964 at Vatican II.  But (at least it seems to me) the real Catholic Church also must have something of a real restoration as well, partially because God loves all souls and wishes all of them to attain salvation, which for the vast multitudes practically depends upon the Church returning to Her formerly vast glory.  Plus (it occurs to me as I write this) were the final Biblical Antichrist to come along right now or in conditions similar to right now, he would find a real Catholic Church so tiny, weak, divided, disorganized, and inconsequential in world affairs as we in fact all are today, that it would be altogether unworthy of his persecution or even a moment of his attention.  No, a strong and vast and glorious Church is what he will find and persecute.  That imagery that "home-aloners" have of the Church just barely limping along, gasping and wheezing, Her final steps towards that final finish line of history, unable even to take that last step through that line under Her own volition but merely having to collapse across it, just plain rings false, and runs counter to the doctrines and dogmas of the Church.

There will therefore, at least eventually, be a Pope again, as that is positively required for any real and substantial restoration.  Until then, all we have is just enough to perform a holding action to keep our tiny faithful remnant alive however long it takes to regain a Pope again.
"My food is to do the will of Him that sent me." - John 4:34
 

true catholic

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Re: What will the Restoration Look Like?
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2018, 08:42:58 PM »
...scripture clearly indicates that the counterfeit catholic church will remain unto the consummation of the world.
EVERY sect and schism is a "counterfeit catholic church," from the Gnostics and Manicheans and Nestorians up through the Photians, the Eastern schismatics, the Muslims, the Protestants (all varieties), the Mormons and Baha'i's and Novus Ordos and Moonies, is a false catholic church, meaning that they each claim to be that which Jesus Christ came into this world to found.  So of course some form or another of counterfeit catholic church is absolutely bound to exist from now to the end of time, even were that to be over a million years from now.  There really is nothing special about the Novus Ordo as just another of the very many false sects and schisms as have arisen and will continue to arise, beyond perhaps its unusually large size in so short amount of time (having stolen its resources right out of the real Catholic Church).  But left to its own devices it would disintegrate and collapse of itself within 1,000 years should the world tarry so long, and be reduced to being of little to no worldwide consequence well before then.

But OK, let us suppose that the actual End manages to come along before the Novus Ordo can shrink by so much as, say 50%, something just possible to some of the very youngest people living today to see in their lifetimes, and also such that no new sect comes along to displace it to any consequential degree in that meantime.  IF that should prove to be the case, then the Biblical Whore of Babylon was born in 1964 at Vatican II.  But (at least it seems to me) the real Catholic Church also must have something of a real restoration as well, partially because God loves all souls and wishes all of them to attain salvation, which for the vast multitudes practically depends upon the Church returning to Her formerly vast glory.  Plus (it occurs to me as I write this) were the final Biblical Antichrist to come along right now or in conditions similar to right now, he would find a real Catholic Church so tiny, weak, divided, disorganized, and inconsequential in world affairs as we in fact all are today, that it would be altogether unworthy of his persecution or even a moment of his attention.  No, a strong and vast and glorious Church is what he will find and persecute.  That imagery that "home-aloners" have of the Church just barely limping along, gasping and wheezing, Her final steps towards that final finish line of history, unable even to take that last step through that line under Her own volition but merely having to collapse across it, just plain rings false, and runs counter to the doctrines and dogmas of the Church.

There will therefore, at least eventually, be a Pope again, as that is positively required for any real and substantial restoration.  Until then, all we have is just enough to perform a holding action to keep our tiny faithful remnant alive however long it takes to regain a Pope again.

Everything that you provided are your own personal ideas with no foundation and has nothing to do with scripture.  No, protestants and others are not counterfeit catholic churches, they do not have the priesthood, sacraments and catholic robes, like the counterfeit catholic church has, that is emanating from Rome. 

You even said that the real Catholic church is weak, divided, and disorganized.  You just trashed the indefectibility of the Catholic church by saying that the Catholic church needs to be restored, which is laughable.  The Catholic church is immaculate and perfect.  The Catholic church is visible in a faithful remnant.  It is a historical fact that the number of the faithful will always be few. 

Just because we don't have the Catholic Mass anymore, which by the way, was prophesied by Daniel, doesn't mean the church is weak, divided etc.  The Catholic church is a society of believers, the buildings are the place of worship. 

We are living through the supreme punishment given by God because of sins against the Faith.  The perpetual sacrifice was prophesied to cease, even to the consummation of the world.

[redacted -- tmw89]
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:18:59 PM by tmw89 »